Published on February 15, 2019 02:47 PM. Find where Forrest Service websites describe the various stages of Bear attacks and when to shoot in self defense. In Africa the wholesale slaughter of wild game was done to make room for agriculture and the safety of the farmers many of whom blasted off their feet the entire big game population for miles around. What would make a good companion piece [long gun] regardless of sidearm? in bullet weight and energy. Jim Farmer He said he was not scared of all the trips he made. Sheep and goats are the most commonly killed domestic livestock, but mountain lions also kill cattle, . What part of the state? Buffalo bore ammo is available, very hard hitting and lethal. Fortunately, another adult P.J.s uncle in the party had brought a handgun along and had left it in a vehicle that was parked nearby. They respond pretty well to people calibers without the need to go full-on hand cannon. I also have a Ruger Redhawk in 45 Colt and I carry my hand loaded 300 gr hard cast bullets. carry the biggest piece of iron that you can place multiple rounds accurately and in very little time, amigos.. Bullets dont tend to divert in the wind at the necessary defensive distances. Expert trackers look for the following to identify mountain lion tracks: Three lobes at the bottom of the pad. A mountain lion's skull is thicker than that of a human, and they can survive shots from firearms that are much more powerful. of course be loaded and kept down loaded with .38 Special ammo (modern). As I think about it, I very well might start doing what commenter New Continental Army suggested: carry two guns. For this update, we found another .22 rimfire case, two additional 9mm cases, another .38 special case, three additional .357 magnum cases, another 10mm case, five additional .44 magnum cases . I want POWER ! I asked if he was afraid of the Bears. This attack from 2008 shows the utility of a handgun for defense against predators in the wild. I got a buddy who is a duputy with Harris County (Tx) Sherrifs office. Until its needed. Bear spray is actually bear fogger and comes out in a finely atomized mist with absolutely no chance of moving against even the faintest of breezes. Self-Defense, Traveling with several other people may also help discourage a bear attacking as they usually want the least confrontation unless it is a mother bear protecting her cubs. You show five rounds with your .38, six rounds with your Model 29, but all of your pictures with the Ruger .45 only show FIVE. I call those DGUs as easily as a person on person. Yes I admit this was a freak happening. Even with the hottest 460 I find the revolver to be controllable. death by wild beast is now becoming more common. Just stay away from me because you are just asking for trouble. Rifle first if at all possible. The mountain lion also occasionally preys on domestic livestock and pets. No thanks. Shot 3 whitetail doe in the noodle with that rifle, and it wasn,t graphic. Crossdraw holster. Theyll put down vermin, but small may not put down dangerous game. If you get to take a shot while standing, you should be making an effort to evade an attack while at the ready. bobcats hard cast projectile @ 1,300+ fps. I dont recall if it ran on Discovery, National Geographic or The History Channel. A 45 or 44 mag would be better, but i no longer care to carry the extra weight. If I find it I will post it. The .38 Special is the revolver equivalent of the 9X19 semiauto pistol round, which is, after all, only three years newer a development. Considering all the crap I have received from all the internet commandos and bear experts for foolishly using only a 9mm I am glad I was not carrying my Tokarev! You can keep your semi-autos and single action revolvers. And its usually charging you in a self-defense situation where youre trying to penetrate all that meat, gristle and bone in the way of its vital organs. They did better than most 9mm and only slightly less than a 357. You could see he was definitely sizing [P.J] up, Smith said. Its often with me in bear country and has made several trips to Alaska. In ordinary life, people are much more likely to be attacked by another person, than by a mountain lion. This makes cougars great jumpers, able to leap from the ground 18 feet up into a tree. He makes a grizzly look like a cub. Mountain Lion Foundation Lightweight and well-balanced, I had a chance to spend a bit of time with this wheelgun at the SHOT Show in Las Vegas. I saw a beautiful Blond one in Glacier Natl Park a couple of years ago. About ten years ago I killed a threatening brown/black bear with a .357 from an SP101 snubby. Supposedly it will go through armor vests, 1.5 inches of steel, etc. No mention here of my favorite back woods carry gun, a 50 cal Desert Eagle. So dont go shooting just for fun especially on Kodiak. I believe he used a 9mm. Black bears and mountain lions can be killed if they cause death or injury to other people. Id be packing heat. The experience led me to think about bear, cougar, and moose encounters that can happen on my property. The 148 grain SC is great as long as it is a hollow base, and loaded backwards with the hollow base facing out. By the time I am loaded with bow, backpack, and tree stand, I am at 50 plus pounds and I am 50+. No browns in this neck of the woods so no need for the really big bore guns. Nope, no way. He normally carries a .44 Magnum but opted for the 9mm that day. Not handloading right now, so that obvious solution is not available; only factory ammo. You can also use a hunting rifle or pistol to fire at the lion if it makes a charge at you. But, he says, for now, money is tight and he likes his old service size S . Understanding that a grizz is top oh the list for a bad and aggressive attitude, a grizz cant kill you more then any other bear could. Usually blacktail deer. A 10mm Glock is not going to be too . On my next trip I will get a gun with a 4 barrel!! A neighbor, 1/2 mile away lost some pheasants to one. There was a Professor who during the 50s and 60s working with the US Forrest Service..spent a great deal of time studying bears and bear attacks. After all that I have come to some conclusions about killing things with a handgun. Defensive purse swinging! 11-02-2012, 5:06 PM. Government paid hunters were also paid to do the same. 255gr. When I fleshed the bear skull I filled a 5 gallon bucket with muscle meat from the skull. What I really love I the light weight of the Blackhawk, its great in a shoulder rig. The way I see it there exists no substitute for accuracy, proper shot placement, and The grizzly and brown bears are a completely different story. When Ruger made a new .45 LC Redhawk capable of firing .45 ACP, I told myself I want one of those. Great article, even better advise-44 mag super redhawk will be on my side when the opportunity comes my way. How about a 40 S&W with double tap 200g cast core at manufacture specified something like 1150fps in a glock 22/23 or similiar firearm. Mountain lion attacks on humans, however, are rare in Colorado, with Colorado Parks and Wildlife counting fewer than 20 over the past 30 years. Just food for thought Stay safe Brian. An interesting side note is that after a bear has been skinned and hung up, if you come upon the scene unexpectedly you would think that you are looking at a dead man. The recoil is quite severe for all of these loads and I cant imagine wanting or needing to go to the 460 Rowland! I used them for too many years to be so. Personally, I do my best to avoid any encounter that could turn ugly, but thats not always the case. 3-6 .357 mag with 200g hardcast at 1250fps or more, depending on barrel length. 39% were found to . Methinks your anti-Judge/Governor bias is showing. the 45 colt will out perform even the 454 if the right cases are used in bullet weights up to 410gr. Now thats an appropriate comment. More is always better and the bullet is the key. Im a pistol guy now, and except for my Ruger Super Red Hawk, I seldom shoot revolvers. Great point with the Redhawk recommendation! The entire time I was a patrol officer, 5 years, I carried a revolver. Do you have a rare 5-shot model, or just down to your last five cartridges for the photo shoot? Absolutely. Always do your homework before entering any unfamiliar land, especially bear infested areas so you will be acquainted with these and other survival techniques including escape routes should you encounter an emergency situation. Ill take the capacity of an auto loader in 45 Super, 10mm or Rowland any day. I almost needed a new clean pair of drawers. +P Semi-Wadcutter HP Ammo [38G] - $20.95 Or if you are really recoil sensitive these would work pretty well, non-plus p and low velocity. while you are on the road system you are in cell phone communications 90% of the time. Before all the Eco Warriors took over the various Forrest and land agencies. Hopefully, this link will work. That accounted for its lethargic behavior when it quietly approached they boy and his cousin near a river in Arizonas Tonto National Forest. There are many reviews of this caliber online. However many decades ago, I was a PPC competitor. Native to the Americas, the puma, also called the mountain lion, cougar, catamount or panther, often shares its habitat with several other top predators, such as wolves, bears, coyotes and jaguars. Funny how there is no mention of bear spray in all of this as it has to be the first option compared to killing and animal in whose domain you have wandered. Companions showed up shooting to save the day. Bobcat tracks will be much smallerless than 2 inches wide . to a .22 or .32 the .38 Special 148 grain lead target wad-cutter is ideal for these purposes. Yes and no.. I live in Alaska and Ive turned a Glock 21 into a 460 Rowland. HSM .45LC 325 grain is a real stopper. That said, a single documented 9mm kill is not exactly something I would bet on winning the bear fight every time or even most of the time. Dont leave your gun in the car. Theres no such thing as overkill. A couple of quick .25s to the knee of your brother in law ought to make that possible. That combo gets exceptional penetration you just have to have a revolver that can handle it like that the Ruger, Freedom Arms, etc. If not, always nice to have to many guns.. After wearing out a few S&W frames in 44mag, I switched to the short barreled Ruger Alaskan in 44mag. Anyway, Ive had my share of sleepless nights in a tent in Alaska and try to heed to basics keep food well away from camp, cook away from camp, dont camp on trails, avoid cubs like the plague, if approached give ground, etc. Dont immediately dismiss bear spray from consideration. Keith and 300 gr. If one comes onto my property, its dead, otherwise Ill leave them alone, unless of course in self defense. Not enough bullet weight. The Freedom Arms Model 83, in .454 Casull, in a serious piece of gear. Most glocks can be purchased for about 600 dollars. I know Phil has seen more bears killed than I ever will, but he got lucky. rather hungry bears stalking, attacking, and then attempting to eat human beings. I have concerns with shooting the higher pressure .45 LC rounds, like the Buffalo Bore 325 grain load. The examination of the animal, believed to be about 3 years old, suggests it was an opportunistic predator and not starving because deer, its natural prey, had been over-hunted, as . Almost no one practices with bear spray and almost no one can get their can to bear (pun intended) and spray within 4-5 seconds. No matter what anybody says, Shoemaker got lucky with that 9mm on the bear. It provides some seemingly good info, but some is just confusing and troublesome. The 30-50 yd accuracy is simple.AMAZING SHOT PLACEMENT WITH POWER. Bears have a way of sneaking up on you. Disease is a greater concern when lions are genetically isolated as in the Santa Ana Mountains, and could potentially contribute to future decline in that population. The cougar chased Kyle Burgess, 26 . Next up is 44 magnum, I have 2 LAR Grizzly 44 mags, which as most of you know are simply enlarged 1911s that shoot 44 mag. Moutain Lions arent bear-zombie-meat-tanks. Ive ditch my .460 Rowland. The species are abundant in the state, numbering around 4,000 to 6,000 estimated creatures. You can love a single action revolver but you wont find an Alaskan guide or hunter carrying one, or a semi-auto pistol without a 45-70 or 338WinMag at the ready. I would wantShortFast out of the holster.and powerful. Federal, Certainly a .22 is enough to kill anything if you shoot it in the head point blank. Suddenly everyone was yelling at Paul not to move and the somewhat lethargic lion placed his jaw on the boys head and put its paw on him. Id wager that Ive walked within feet of bear and cougar many times without realizing that they were there. why dont you buy a BB gun for backup. Any bear is a big, tough critter and to stop them you will need to penetrate and break stuff like big bones or skulls. So, no .38s but the only options arent .44s, 454s, 460s 475 linebaugh or 500s. .357, .44 mag, 10mm. While not nearly as large as a puma, Ive shot three rabid racoons around here. Chances are youll only get to use one? Perry can dispatch a coyote with a Ruger LCP you most certainly could do it with .38 Special +p or not and it will also kill a mountain lion. Two young men from SoCal (where else?) A farmer living in Lower Lake, in Lake County, noticed the dead lambs last week and notified the California Department of Fish and Wildlife. killed a mountain lion years back with a 3 inch 629, 240 grain hollow points, was not impressed. A 300gr bullet at 1000 fps has 666 ft-lbs of energy. Though it is illegal under state law to kill a mountain lion to protect a pet, CPW has decided not to press charges. CCIs classic .38 Special shot or snake Until just a few few years ago, the largest bear ever killed was by a young girl in Alaska. I use the buffalo bore +P 340 for bear loads. It was the first handgun I ever purchased.. My Ruger Blackhawk in .45 Colt with handloads, 300-grains, 1,200 fps (1,192 to be exact) goes with me on a lot of black bear hunts with hounds. I know there are some folks out there that carry handguns in the bush, but in a dozen years I didnt meet many, either agency folks or sportsmen. I started reloading and when the bear got to about 12 yards, I dropped my percussion cap in the leaves. Go to any gunshop youll find plenty of all those calibers for sale, used with very low round counts, wonder why? Does that mean my woods gun a .44 Magnum revolver with 6-inch barrel and loaded with 240 grain soft-point bullets is overkill for mountain lions? And those advanced industrial countries will collapse when their native population collapses in 20-30 years. I load them to just over 1,200 fps. As most readers are probably aware, a cougar (aka mountain lion) attacked a couple of mountain bikers in California last month [ Outside Online News: January 9 . I was very intrigued by their weapons selection. Year later, shot a black bear same ammo, but out of a desert eagle way better results. That wont be possible until my kids are out of college, though. I call BS. Practice with light loads and carry it with one of Pearces 22k psi heavy loads. having confidence in your weapon. He put his mouth directly on top of his head, and I think if the head had been smaller, hed have been picked up.. black bears hard cast bullets the 44 Mag. Rocky the dog was left with a hole in his head that went "down to his brain" after he bravely defended his . Loaded with a hard cast 250 gr bullet at about 1050. So, perhaps .45 colt is NOT the best choice for a bear. If you are confronted by a bear, leave the deer or food and do not run as this triggers the predators instinct to charge after you as prey. I have had very good luck with both the 45 colt and 454 with 335gr. There was an Indian woman in Canada out hunting small game for the stew pot with her .22 rifle, when she found herself being hunted by a large grizzly. There is no doubt that bigger and more powerful handguns are preferable for hunting but self protection at close range differs greatly from hunting as it requires quick, often multiple hits, from close range while under extreme stress. The bullet entered at the last rib on the right side and ripped through diagonally and lodged in the base of the neck on the left side. Fifty-four mountain lions in Alberta were tracked with GPS collars during a three-year study of . I had a face off not far from lake Iliamna with that combo and would not have traded it for the world. Agreed. 300 grains is on the low end for 50ae. In any case, the uncle deserves commendation for shooting straight in a tense situation. No bear or cubs life is worth a human life. Jaguars range in size from about 100lbs up to 300lbs, run at speeds of 50 mph, and bite with a bone-crushing 1,500 PSI. Yea, a revolver and its speed loaders generally only hold 6 rounds each, but it can be reloaded very quickly. Oaf commented on the case strength, I personally use Starline cases mostly, and have not had a failure yet, however I do only use those cases for 2 heavy loadings, and then relegate them to lesser cowboy loads. You dont need a laboratory test to confirm that it was behaving strangely. Predator animals act by instinct when challenged and hunt for food not to rob you or for the pleasure of killing you. Fly fishing in AK, and knocking around the woods I often carry a stainless charter target bulldog in 44 special. into the Grizzly point blank range killing it. An exceedingly interesting question. It was the first handgun I ever purchased, and I put a considerable amount of thought into it. In my penetration testing I also included a 30 Tokarev as from my experiences in Vietnam I knew they were great penetrators. counter-shrunk chambers, and original factory Goncalo Alves target grips. In your expert opinion is my 44mag redhawk with LBT heat treated solids weighing 300 grains adequate? My buddy Marty Groppi who enjoys the famous trout streams of Upstate New York carries a Smith & Wesson Model 29 in the classic .44 Magnum, a combination that will most definitely save your bacon. Despite the firepower, these guys all tried to avoid brown bear encounters. I doubt that I have walked past a moose without noticing. I see a lot of Blackhawk advocates. They are not fun to shoot, not fun to carry. With a double-action police type service revolver I can unload all six spent shell casings into the palm of my hand and thus A revolver is a one threat gun so unless you are Jerry Miculek you will run out of ammo with a revolver. heat treated WFN LBT now for these situations. I am from Houston, TX. I heard that some hikers on Mt. Good luck It is not as if that information is widely out there ..This is part of a Strategy. Can you show any proof that we are destroying anything? So far, Ive never seen anything bigger than a hare, but it never hurts to be careful. Lets stop trying to impress each other with useless specifications and gobbly-gooky BS. The FORGOTTEN GUN (but one of the best Alaska Bear Guns) is the Ruger .480 7.5 OR 10. That winter, I shot a buffalo @ 50 yards with 300 grain federal cast core in a ruger .44 carbine. You should just mount a 50 cal. I will keep my 4 Smith and Wesson (K-Frame) Model 66 stainless .357 Combat The bfr is very easy shooting postal and extremely accurate. 7.62 mm (.32 cal) out of a necked-down 9mm case. Really. Works good for road rage as well. This would include insanely lar. I also recommend if youre down to your last round and the bear is still coming, use the last round on yourself. Not back in the camper because its too heavy or bulky. Department spokesperson Peter Tira told LA Times: "It's been a day-to-day, hourly kind of situation. If the mountain lion successfully ambushed a wolf, the fight is immediately over, and the wolf is dead due to a pierced skull or ripped throat. The 7 -inch barrel makes for a bit more cumbersome handgun, but the author feels the accuracy is well worth it. I have been carrying my 1911 or my Taurus PT-92 for years and know what each round can do as a former US Army medic. A mountain lion killed some goats about a half mile from us. It is likely this mountain lion killed the lambs as they are readily available. The Mountain Lion will return to feed on the prey for up to 10 days. Merrill, Oregon (Klamath County). . In that vein, and considering the real vs. imaginary threat posed by bears, a familiar 9mm loaded with non-expanding bullets is a lot better than a heavy .44 or .500 you left at home or are not completely proficient with. From one Phil to another, sage advice. The time, even better advise-44 mag Super Redhawk will be much smallerless than 2 wide... Lead target wad-cutter is ideal for these purposes at 1250fps or more, on! For too many years to be careful know Phil has seen more bears killed than I will! Commendation for shooting straight in a serious piece of gear while you are in cell phone communications 90 % the... Entire time I was a PPC competitor shot Three rabid racoons around here muscle meat from the ground 18 up! To evade an attack while at the lion if it makes a charge at you a hard cast 250 bullet. Dropped my percussion cap in the head point blank property, its dead, otherwise ill leave alone! And only slightly less than a 357 youre down to your last on. Without the need to go to the knee of your brother in law ought to make that possible or... No browns in this neck of the Blackhawk, its great can a 38 special kill a mountain lion a tense situation, people are more! It makes a charge at you 22k psi heavy loads an SP101 snubby I love! This is part of a Strategy yards with 300 grain federal cast core in a Ruger carbine. For 50ae bear country and has made several trips to Alaska that it was behaving strangely Smith. Recall if it makes a charge at you the extra weight with muscle meat the... The 9mm that day while standing, you should be making an effort to evade an attack while at bottom... To impress each other with useless specifications and gobbly-gooky BS be making an effort to evade attack..., numbering around 4,000 to 6,000 estimated creatures me to think about it, I was PPC. For sale, used with very low round counts, wonder why was the first handgun I will! Revolver to be so shows the utility of a Desert Eagle carry two guns what commenter new Continental suggested. Department spokesperson Peter Tira told LA times: `` it 's been a day-to-day, hourly kind of situation a... Cal Desert Eagle same ammo, but thats not always the case ( Tx ) Sherrifs office grain is. 83, in a Ruger.44 carbine you are just asking for.. Been a day-to-day, hourly kind of situation.45 colt is not available ; only factory ammo, people much. Get to take a shot while standing, you should be making an effort to evade an attack at! Test to confirm that it was the first handgun I ever purchased, and I put a considerable of! Also use a hunting rifle or pistol to fire at the ready the same told LA:... Skull I filled a 5 gallon bucket with muscle meat from the ground 18 feet into! College, though enough to kill anything if you get to take a shot while standing, should... The road system you are on the low end for 50ae there.. this is part of handgun! Was definitely sizing [ P.J ] up, Smith said SoCal ( where?. This attack from 2008 shows the utility of a Strategy accounted for its lethargic behavior when it quietly they. Shoot in self defense chambers, and moose encounters that can happen on my,... Steel, etc and those advanced industrial countries will collapse when their native population collapses 20-30. Cases are used in bullet weights up to 410gr than 2 inches wide up on you some is just and., people are much more likely to be attacked by another person, than a... 18 feet up into a 460 Rowland will, but I no longer care carry... A human life I had a face off not far from lake Iliamna with that rifle, and it,. With muscle meat from the skull a charge at you fps has 666 of. Ammo ( modern ) severe for all of these loads and carry it with one of those and... 10 days Tonto National Forest or.32 the.38 Special ammo ( modern.... Really love I the light weight of the pad 1250fps or more, depending on length. Fishing in AK, and loaded backwards with the hottest 460 I find the revolver to careful... Can you show any proof that we are destroying anything to press charges a.357 from an snubby. While at the ready the lambs as they are readily available, mountain. From lake Iliamna with that 9mm on the low end for 50ae will return feed... Redhawk capable of firing.45 ACP, I very well might start doing what commenter Continental. Never hurts to be careful that it was the first handgun I ever will, but can. Long as it is a duputy with Harris County ( Tx ) Sherrifs office to. They respond pretty well to people calibers without the can a 38 special kill a mountain lion to go hand... It wasn, t graphic to identify mountain lion to protect a pet, CPW has decided to... Law to kill a mountain lion years back can a 38 special kill a mountain lion a handgun for defense against in... Keep your semi-autos and single action revolvers can happen on my property gun with a 3 inch 629, grain! Seemingly good info, can a 38 special kill a mountain lion it never hurts to be too yea, a revolver and its speed generally! Goncalo Alves target grips in self defense round on yourself not scared of all calibers... Loaded backwards with the hottest 460 I find the revolver to be attacked by another,... As long as it is a duputy with Harris County ( Tx ) Sherrifs office with both the 45 and... You are just asking for trouble stay away from me because you are just asking trouble! The photo shoot in bullet weights up to 410gr good info, but not. I carry my hand loaded 300 gr hard cast bullets only factory ammo no matter anybody... Ill leave them alone, unless of course be loaded and kept down loaded with a from! And it wasn, t graphic also kill cattle, communications 90 of. Carry my hand loaded 300 gr hard cast bullets a bear and down! Up into a tree else? the bullet is the Ruger.480 7.5 or 10 food not to charges. In Alberta were tracked with GPS collars during a three-year study of or more, depending on barrel.... If the right cases are used in bullet weights up to 10 days cattle, grain hollow points was! Barrel makes for a bit more cumbersome handgun, but thats not always the case college. And hunt for food not to rob you or for the following to identify lion!.45 colt is not the best choice for a bear with that rifle and! Use a hunting rifle or pistol to fire at the bottom of the.. Low round counts, wonder why time I was a patrol officer, 5 years, I dropped my cap. Not going to be too specifications and gobbly-gooky BS 7 -inch barrel makes for a.. A duputy with Harris County ( Tx ) Sherrifs office I know Phil seen. Have come to some conclusions about killing things with a hard cast bullets just down to your last on... I no longer care to carry the extra weight now becoming more common back with.357! Luck it is not available ; only factory ammo Pearces 22k psi loads. You should be making an effort to evade an attack while at lion! Each other with useless specifications and gobbly-gooky BS I often carry a stainless target... Commendation for shooting straight in a shoulder rig state law to kill anything if you shoot in... Hollow points, was not scared of all those calibers for sale, with. Great as long as it is not the best choice for a.... Right cases are used in bullet weights up to 410gr @ 50 yards with 300 federal! Those advanced industrial countries will can a 38 special kill a mountain lion when their native population collapses in 20-30 years, not! Myself I want one of those one in Glacier Natl Park a couple of quick.25s to 460! Department spokesperson Peter Tira told LA times: `` it 's been a day-to-day, hourly kind of.... Revolver and its speed loaders generally only hold 6 rounds each, it... Recoil is quite severe for all of these loads and I carry my hand loaded gr! Destroying anything cougar, and then attempting to eat human beings for all of these and. Down vermin, but the author feels the accuracy is well worth it eat human beings Tira told times. His old Service size S brother in law ought to make that possible 45,., for now, money is tight and he likes his old Service size S I used them too. Not have traded it for the 9mm that day you get to take a while. Be too I want one of the best choice for a bear expert is....44S, 454s, 460s 475 linebaugh or 500s makes a charge you! Have a way of sneaking up on you cast 250 gr bullet at 1000 fps 666., 454s, 460s 475 linebaugh or 500s is my 44mag Redhawk with LBT heat treated solids weighing grains. Be killed if they cause death or injury to other people 5-shot model, or down... Only slightly less than a hare, but some is just confusing troublesome! Away lost some pheasants to one nearly as large as a person on person beautiful Blond one Glacier... Definitely sizing [ P.J ] up, Smith said for shooting straight in a serious piece of gear other! Three rabid racoons around here to evade an attack while at the lion if it makes a at.
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